Topic: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

As a byproduct of stuff I'm currently working on, I ported my rawp engine to TI Z80. Thanks to the faster CPU, it sounds much, much better than the original ZX Spectrum version.

For those of you who aren't aware of the original engine, here's the feature list:

- 2 tone channels
- 13 different sounds
- limited volume control
- 1 interrupting hihat sound
- per-step tempo control

download (includes XM converter, requires Perl)
sound example

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

The example sounds really cool.

Too bad I never managed to make the link cable to work, and I don't have a PC with COM port anymore.

website - 1bit music - other music - youtube - bandcamp - patreon (latest news there)

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

Thanks! I was surprised, too, that 6 MHz was enough to get rid of the nasty discretion noise. I should revisit the Speccy version, see if I can speed it up some more, and perhaps add 16-bit counters while I'm at it.

Re the link cable, I use the "SilverLink" USB cable nowadays, works fine with all models despite what TI claims. I'm getting a new batch of them shortly, so I can give you one, provided we can work out a way to send it. Do you know anyone in the Netherlands who could take it, or do you think it's safe enough to try it via mail?

4 (edited by Shiru 2015-07-31 07:40:58)

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

People asked my mail address many times intending to send me something, but I never received anything (I'm totally sure I gave correct info), despite I myself mailed things over locally and overseas, and that always worked fast. So I guess it is not safe enough. I don't know anyone in the Netherlands, and would I know, it is unlikely they'd fly over here to hand me over something in person. So thanks for the offer, but I don't think it's going to work.

website - 1bit music - other music - youtube - bandcamp - patreon (latest news there)

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

wow, for this cable link, it's 18$ on Amazon USA from Texas Instruments, 36 € on Amazon France from the same seller...

This rawp engine on TI sounds powerful!

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

I used to own a TI-82 when I was at school, and I've sold it later so now I'm missing it... it was not a bad bargain at the time, with the money I've bought an HP 48 which I like very much, but anyway I was thinking to buy an used TI-82 stat which we can find quite cheap nowadays (even if the TI-82 was nicer)...
How much do you pay for those SilverLink cables Utz?

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

I've never actually tested any of my software on TI-82 STATS. Supposedly it's fully compatible with TI-83, but it would be great to get some confirmation of this. Well, whatever you do, just don't get a TI-82 Parcus. Since years I'm trying to figure out why stuff doesn't work on it like it's supposed to, but in the end the answer remains: Because it just doesn't.

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

> just don't get a TI-82 Parcus.

maybe because of this?

http://www.datamath.org/Graphing/TI-82_1.htm
"CPU (Central processing Unit): The Toshiba T6C79 is a so-called Application Specific CPU and combines a Z80 core with an ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit). "

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

That in itself would not be such a big problem as the later models use a similar setup, but unfortunately there is hardly any documentation regarding the consequences in this case. From what I've deduced over the years, the 82 Parcus is basically a TI-83 hardware-wise (using the same port layout and such), but running a modified 82 OS (which has not been documented properly either). I've been able to run software on it, but it seems the relocation process in CrASH19.0006 is buggy (or at least there is some feature of it that isn't documented), so usually stuff will crash on exit.

10 (edited by garvalf 2015-08-03 06:59:49)

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

it seems the TI82 stat is similar to the Parcus... I don't know if I'll take the risk. I don't know much about the TI, but after trying a few emulators, it seems the TI 83 plus would be easier to use because there is built-in ASM functions (I could try to load the rawp.83p but there is no sound output in the PC emulator).
I've ordered one on ebay...

11

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

Yes, the 83+ is decent, just got one myself. However, don't try the 83p on it - it needs the 8xp wink
The naming of these calcs is ridiculous, btw. Especially in France where all the machines get different names. Ie. TI-82 STATS = TI-83, it has nothing to do with TI-82. There is also TI-82 Plus which is a modified TI-84 Plus, and the TI-82 Advanced, which is a more locked down TI-82 Plus.

12 (edited by garvalf 2015-08-07 21:33:12)

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

would the 84+ be much better than the 83+? It's more expensive anyway.
So far the 83+ I got seems ok. It's a "TI-83 Plus.fr" in fact, for making music with the "French Touch" wink

I got the cable link we talked about. It's working as a "grey link" (serial) cable. I didn't manage to make it work on linux with tilp, but I'll try on another computer. It just says the cable is not connected but my system is detecting it (with dmesg). On windows I got tilp to work (with efforts), I had to test several serial ports. The official TI Connect works the best. (I had to install by hand this driver http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProdu … mp;pcid=41)
I don't know if a silverlink would have worked better, I've read it was quite complicated to connect to linux. But I'll try more with mine...

A few things which didn't work at first (not your fault):
- The first time I added some new patterns to your sample tune, it could compile but not be executed on the TI83, probably a memory problem. The message during execution was more saying something like "syntax error" so it wasn't easy to understand it was because of this.
- Adding 2 rawp songs in the TI83 were also filling its memory badly.
- it's a pity they used those tiny jack connectors. I only found a earphone for using with it, so I'll search more or buy a new converter. When the earphones are connected, the calculator is very unresponsive. Probably with a jack converter it won't do this.
- no speakers on the TI, it's a pity too...
- Thank you for telling me about the 8xp. I also tried the 83p files but they were also using the extra patterns so it couldn't work anyway.
- http://irrlichtproject.de/downloads/rawp-ti.zip is not responding...

So in conclusion I managed to create some music and send it to the calculator, so I'm quite happy with this. I experienced some heavy detuning in comparison with the sounds on milkytracker so I need to work more with it to learn what works ok and what works less. It sounds amazing anyway, thanks for this work!

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

Wow, niiiiice. We have to start working harder, so that ZX Spectrum remains a capital of the beeper world smile

14 (edited by utz 2015-08-09 20:34:30)

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

@introspec: hehe thanks wink It's gonna be a tough battle... TI has nearly the same setup as the Speccy, but it's also nearly twice as fast wink

garvalf wrote:

would the 84+ be much better than the 83+? It's more expensive anyway.
So far the 83+ I got seems ok. It's a "TI-83 Plus.fr" in fact, for making music with the "French Touch" wink

I got the cable link we talked about. It's working as a "grey link" (serial) cable. I didn't manage to make it work on linux with tilp, but I'll try on another computer. It just says the cable is not connected but my system is detecting it (with dmesg). On windows I got tilp to work (with efforts), I had to test several serial ports. The official TI Connect works the best. (I had to install by hand this driver http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProdu … mp;pcid=41)
I don't know if a silverlink would have worked better, I've read it was quite complicated to connect to linux. But I'll try more with mine...

Hmm, SilverLink works out-of-the-box for me (Debian+TiLP from the repos). Never had any probs with it.
I think the problem is that the cable is interpreted as serial when it is really USB. On the one hand it's not too surprising because originally GrayLink was a indeed a serial cable. Hmm... maybe you can force TiLP to use it as SilverLink via command line? Otherwise, if problems persist shoot Lionel Debroux (TilP dev) a mail, he's a really nice guy and he might be curious about this cable, too.

A few things which didn't work at first (not your fault):
- The first time I added some new patterns to your sample tune, it could compile but not be executed on the TI83, probably a memory problem. The message during execution was more saying something like "syntax error" so it wasn't easy to understand it was because of this.

Hmm, if there's a memory problem you usually wouldn't be able to transfer it to the machine in the first place. Perhaps you can send me the problematic song file so I can have a look? Maybe I made an error somewhere...

- Adding 2 rawp songs in the TI83 were also filling its memory badly.

Yes, undoubtedly so, because the rawp engine itself is rather huge. Best to recycle the player and just swap out the song data (have a look at rawp.asm, the pointer to the music data is on line 32)

- it's a pity they used those tiny jack connectors. I only found a earphone for using with it, so I'll search more or buy a new converter. When the earphones are connected, the calculator is very unresponsive. Probably with a jack converter it won't do this.
- no speakers on the TI, it's a pity too...

Yes, 2.5mm jack suxx big_smile The unresponsiveness is due to the calculator picking up phantom voltage from the earphones. Plugging them in after you've started the shell should help to avoid the problem.

- Thank you for telling me about the 8xp. I also tried the 83p files but they were also using the extra patterns so it couldn't work anyway.
- http://irrlichtproject.de/downloads/rawp-ti.zip is not responding...

Yeah, my stupid server is down again.

So in conclusion I managed to create some music and send it to the calculator, so I'm quite happy with this. I experienced some heavy detuning in comparison with the sounds on milkytracker so I need to work more with it to learn what works ok and what works less. It sounds amazing anyway, thanks for this work!

Thank you for trying it out! Unfortunately this engine uses 8-bit frequency counters, so detuning is to be expected from upper 3rd octave on. I'm working on a version with 16-bit counters though.

Edit re: 83+ vs 84+. Starting with the 83+ SE, the processor can be used in 15 MHz mode, which is awesome. However, I don't own any calcs of this generation (yet), so I'm not supporting this. Also, the size of the Flash RAM varies among models (though it's not necessarily bigger on 84+ models). Other than that, the 83+ and 84+ are practically identical.

15 (edited by garvalf 2015-08-10 07:35:18)

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

Thank you for your answers. Now I think I've understood why it didn't work:
TiLP expected the TI to be connected to /dev/ttyS0 while my dmesg told me "pl2303 converter now attached to ttyUSB0", so I've just made a symbolic link like this:

sudo ln -sf /dev/ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyS0

and now it works wink

> The unresponsiveness is due to the calculator picking up phantom voltage from the earphones.

ah. I also wanted to try your Houston Tracker but it will be difficult this way...

Anyway I already have much work to do with this rawp engine and other stuffs for the competition smile

16

Re: rawp engine for ti-82/83/83+/84+

Just to clarify, plugging in earphones isn't harmful. Just don't do it during normal TI-OS operation, ie. plug them in after you've started DoorsCS/Mirage/whatever.